'Flamencos think this is a big joke, they've got no respect for flamencology'
When you start wading through flamenco bibliographies, you come across his name more than that of any other flamencologist or expert. And not even age and health problems can keep him down. Despite going through a lengthy convalescence, José Blas Vega’s (Madrid, 1942) face lights up when he starts to name all the projects he’s got cooking.
It’s quite another thing however, when we discuss the current panorama…then he says he prefers to stay at home, with his own things. Writing, organizing material, preparing conferences. Working on things that will help others understand what it’s all about…
Is your health coming back together? Yes, little by little, waiting for the results of analysis, but yes, much better, everything seems under control now.
You were forced to take a break…but I have a feeling you didn’t do a lot of resting. As long as I still have my usual enthusiasm, I’ll have projects in my head. The truth is, I’m never short of things to do, and at the rate I’m going, I’d need several lifetimes to finish everything. Now, for example, I’m involved in a conference and biography of Manolo Caracol. Something that I was thinking about for a long time, and that’s taking shape. It’s been very trying, but I think it’s worthwhile as he was one of the greatest artists of history.
Caracol was maybe the most forgotten of the greats… The time has come to do him justice. Well, it’s really always been time. But due to circumstances, nothing had been done that was worthy of his contribution. Anyone who listens to today’s flamenco can see there are elements of his style, a tremendous legacy of recordings… The problem with Caracol is people resent some things he did on stage, and sometimes it seems what he did wasn’t flamenco. His time has definitely come.
You’ve been speaking and writing about the great for a long time. Yes, it’s true. I began at 21 giving conferences about Chacón, and then, as you know, all the rest, the biographies, the investigations, etc. It wasn’t that difficult for me if you consider I was in constant contact with big artists who told me about those stars.
José Blas Vega’s work hasn’t only to do with flamenco, there are also some touchy subjects… Yes. I think you’re talking about the erotic writing. I’ve always been fascinated by the history of erotic literature and pornography in Spain. And it was something that had been published very little in our country. So I was also a pioneer in that area, and have been duly recognized.
”A lot is said about the ‘Madrid scene’ of the 1980s, but I lived through an earlier scene, in the roadside cafés of the fifties and sixties where flamenco and Spanish lyrical song were the order of the day”.
How does José Blas Vega work? Like I said before, I was lucky enough to find and write about flamenco while at the same time meeting and mingling daily with great artists, many of whom are at the center of my work. That’s why I didn’t just copy things from other books, and in any case, there wasn’t material to draw from.
In my case, I think I took off from an idea that came by itself, from the need to know, and then other projects would occur to me while I was working on something else. I play it by ear. And like I say, the dearth of material to draw from made me scrounge around much more than now when we have good information within everyone’s reach. My conversations with professional flamenco friends was perhaps the main source that made me realize the importance of certain things.
Madrid has been an important element in your work. Yes, but actually, what’s been published about the capital doesn’t tell half the story. Madrid was the focal point of several things I did. First of all, because I’m a Madrid native, and second, because quite frankly I think this city has in many ways been the capital of flamenco. And like I say, what I’ve written about Madrid falls far short compared to all the material I have. It’s one of the areas of my work that I like best and for which I’ve been recognized. For example, my work on Madrid’s cafés cantantes which last year received the award of the Cátedra de Flamencología de Jerez and in which I document the subject and discuss more than eighty such establishments in the capital.
Here in Madrid is where the concept was formed of flamenco as an art-form that moves money and generates opportunities for artists. A lot is said about the “Madrid scene” of the 1980s, but I lived through an earlier scene, in the roadside cafés on the road to Aragón in the fifties and sixties where flamenco and Spanish lyrical song was the order of the day.
You must have had some family background in flamenco to have begun digging around back in the 1950s… In actual fact, no, nothing at all. Well, you know, the typical thing was to turn on the radio and listen to the people of the era. Spanish song, ‘copla’, flamenco… These were everyday sounds we all liked, and like me, many people were hearing them from early on. That helps a lot, but the intense interest came from withing myself. I’ve got newspaper clippings from 1952 with references to flamenco and Spanish song shows at the Circo Price, very near to where I used to live, so I was really curious about it all, and began to collect documentation…for whatever reason…
José Blas Vega
Libreria del Prado, interior
After that, one thing followed another, I went to see famous people at the Teatro Calderón, I read Fernando el de Triana’s book…it all began to come into focus.
Another interesting point is the fact that I worked for the Hispavox record company in the production department. I was deeply involved in the preparation of material which, if I remember right, reached 300 recordings, with all kinds of artists: Manolo Cano, Carmen Linares, Fernanda y Bernarda, Serranito…
Everything contributed to putting me on the track of bigger and bigger projects, anthologies and encyclopedias where I think I did my best work.
We’re talking about basic reference works. Was that your objective from the beginning? No, like I say, they are projects that came up along the way. The thing is, the prizes and recognition they were giving me were a tremendous motivation to continue in the line of investigation. Always knowing I had little to draw from, and that I was the one who had to open things up. You demand more of yourself as the years go by.
Also, I didn’t want to just write biographies or collect anecdotes. The interesting thing is going beyond, you have to study the styles of each artist, the evolution of the cantes, the real contribution, and everything documented. I think that’s where you could say I established a tendency.
“There are some great artists, but many others are not fit to be seen, they’re just not up to the task, they’ve disregarded the natural evolution of flamenco and the study of their art”
And isn’t there something you still need to accomplish? It sounds impossible but…. There’s so much to do, like I said at the beginning, I’d need several lifetimes to finish everything, but I don’t really have any regrets. I must have made a contribution when I’m the most quoted investigator in flamenco books.
How do people investigate nowadays, is it any different from when you started? Of course. When I started, there were very few books, and those that existed dealt with flamenco in a very flamenco way, without delving into the essence of the cante, the technique, the evolution. But with the work of people like Anselmo González Climent, starting around the decade of the nineteen-fifties, the level of investigation began to improve.
People began to make use of newspaper libraries and uncovered very useful information. For example José Luís Ortíz Nuevo, who went through Seville’s old newspapers with a fine-tooth comb and pulled out some very valuable information. The idea was to document events as they had taken place. None of this “oral tradition” or rumors.
For this reason we now have many valid points of reference when we want to analyze some aspect of flamenco. There are files, discographies, institutions that are the custodians of this material…
And the actual interpreters…do they refer to documents as much as you investigators? No, they don’t read, they even make fun of it all…they think this is a big joke, and have no respect for flamencology. And they’re just the ones who have benefited from the work of all these studies. And I’ll tell you something else, the bulk of our work has the objective of elevating flamenco and its interpreters to the place they belong. There are recognized professionals who don’t scrounge for a living like before, and this is precisely because we’ve written about and described their work as is fitting, but we don’t receive due respect.
And I would go so far as to say that while there are some great artists, many others are not fit to be seen, they’re just not up to the task, they’ve disregarded the natural evolution of flamenco and the study of their art, but not everyone. We’ve got Fosforito who is always ready to give conferences, he’s concerned about these things, Antonio Mairena in his day, who collected, updated and recuperated cantes and inspired other artists, José Menese, Morente…these are the exceptions. Like I say, the normal thing is that the interpreters aren’t too interested in all this.
I think today’s flamenco performers listen more than they read. Right in their own homes they have access to the cantes they want…it’s quite another thing knowing how to develop them.
“Nowadays flamenco sounds different, there’s a tendency to mix it with other kinds of music and do fusion, with more confusion than anything else…it’s more in keeping with the youthful demand”.
“There are also people now who try to do things from both sides, in order to make everyone happy…guitar accompaniment has become another kind of instrumental, there’s more tone-bending, more shouting, the cajón has been introduced”.
How would you compare the various eras you’ve lived through? We’ve come from the absence of formality in the 19th century, to what we have today. And the big change came with Chacón, his technique, his contribution of cantes, his personal mark… He was the beginning of the Golden Age, the most glorious of flamenco, until the nineteen-fifties, with several artists who gave concrete forms to what was truly flamenco, becoming true professionals of this art and laying down the framework for the repertoire.
With flamencology, a lot of pieces can be put together, but it also bears the mark of the footprint of the laboratory, a sort of Renaissance that almost comes right up to our times.
Nowadays flamenco sounds different, there’s a tendency to mix it with other kinds of music and do fusion, with more confusion than anything else…it’s more in keeping with the youthful demand.
There are also people now who try to do things from both sides, in order to make everyone happy…guitar accompaniment has become another kind of instrumental, there’s more tone-bending, more shouting, the cajón has been introduced. I don’t mean to say this kind of flamenco is better or worse, but it’s a completely different concept from any of the previous eras.
But hasn’t there always been this kind of innovation? It’s possible. There was a lot of folklore in early flamenco, then, in the café cantante period you knew who was professional and who wasn’t. Mostly in the technique, and in knowing how to interact with people. Malagueña appeared as an innovation that contrasted with traditional cante, bulería was scarcely heard until the nineteen-thirties, until then interpreters were criticized for doing it. Orchestrations were introduced, and then there was Vallejo, Niña de los Peines, Sevillano… Then popular music was combined with cante, and people like Caracol, Pepe Pinto, Manolo el Malagueño, Farina, Príncipe Gitano and Valderrama were very criticized for this, and they were actually all great artists.
Tell me about your shop, the Librería del Prado. Do a lot of flamenco people stop by? It started out on Espíritu Santo street, a little investment of mind, and then in 1982 I got this place on Prado street. In actual fact, not many flamenco people visit, flamenco is still a minority interest, and more so when it comes to books. I’ve got my collection, my section of old flamenco books if anyone should stop by…but people don’t usually come asking about flamenco books.
Has flamenco given you a life philosophy? Yes, completely. It conditions you. Everything I said about hanging out with major interpreters, it all leaves its mark. And you learn, because you not only see the good side, the one you see on stage. You also get to know the dark side, the misery of vanity, drugs, which is something that has come up in recent years.
A social phenomenon worthy of study by flamencologists, possibly even a factor in the appearance the most recent kind of flamenco. From the seventies I saw how things went, and in fact, I don’t think it had much influence, but it physically destroyed so many artists, cut their careers drastically short. But stylistically I don’t think it’s been so important, perhaps it just hasn’t been analyzed.
“From the seventies I saw how things went, and in fact, I don’t think drugs had much influence, but they physically destroyed so many artists, cut their careers drastically short. But stylistically I don’t think it’s been so important, perhaps it just hasn’t been analyzed”
You don’t tend to go to flamenco concerts or shows. I hardly ever go. After so many years seeing the greats, I need to be extra motivated nowadays. And when I do go, it’s more because of a sense of obligation than anything else…I don’t know, I’m not so attracted to today’s flamenco artists. I always see the same ones…I like Arcángel…I don’t know, I prefer to stay at home with my own things.
A last bit of wisdom… That people should do what I say, not what I do, they should go and hear and see flamenco, especially the young ones, because this is such a great art, and it covers so many specialties…it’s an art that will always be maintained and stay alive, it’s worthwhile.
