Interview with Enrique Montiel, Camarón’s biographer and co-producer of the record 'Camarón en la Venta de Vargas'

Interview with Enrique Montiel, Camarón’s biographer and co-producer of the record “Camarón en la Venta de Vargas”

We’re with Enrique Montiel who along with Ricardo
Pachón was responsible for editing yet another Camarón
record from a 4-track tape which they claim was recorded around
1968 at the famous Venta de Vargas, and which was found in
a drawer, although the date has still not been confirmed in
a reliable way. On this tape says Enrique, “we find
the missing link and the definitive proof that Camarón
is a very complete singer and very knowledgeable about basic
cantes”.

“For the venta with the most
art in all Spain, with affection and admiration, Camarón”.
Thus signed the singer in the venta’s guest-book when
he returned years later as a well-established cantaor.

What
was the Venta de Vargas like in its heyday?
After Spain’s civil war it had another name, but then
Juan Vargas, a classy gypsy, bought it and the legend started
to take shape. He was a flamenco singer with a big personality,
he wrote popular poetry and managed to attract the well-to-do
of the era, especially from Cádiz, Jerez and Sevilla.
There were two attractions: the products of the land, in this
case of the sea, fantastic clams, sole, sea bass, out of this
world, and then Juan Vargas was an intimate friend of Manolo
Caracol, they were like brothers. When Caracol went to the
venta, there used to be bullfighters as well, so there was
the traditional bond of both worlds, bullfighting and flamenco,
and artists would go there to earn a living singing for fiestas,
people like Aurelio Sellés, el Chato de la Isla…

In 1960 Camarón was 10, and he would go to the venta
because his older brother made his living there, he was friends
with Juan Vargas’ nephews and they would go swimming
at Sancti Petri. On the way back, Camarón would stop
at the venta, sometimes they would go looking for him. Even
as a child he was considered a genius of cante flamenco, he
was already known.

The recording has two parts. The first four cantes, in the
outdoors, are when Camarón was 15 or 16, recorded just
before he went to Málaga with Miguel de los Reyes,
and the second part is from a fiesta in the back room when
he returned from Málaga and before going to Madrid.

It’s surprising to hear a
16-year-old Camarón singing seguiriyas, bulerías,
tangos…everything.
That’s the big surprise of the record, Camarón’s
command of traditional flamenco.

And where did he learn all those
cantes?
He learned them at home from his mother, an extraordinary
cantaora, and at the Monje smithy shop, his father sang, there
were fiestas… Gypsy blacksmiths are good singers, and his
mother was a gypsy who sang very well. He learned from his
parents.

But it’s no surprise, María, Niña Pastori,
I saw her singing everything when she was seven, she’s
from the Pelao family, and along with the Monjes they were
the two great gypsy families of cante. Since children they
had the school right at home.

«That’s the big surprise
of the record, Camarón’s command of traditional
flamenco».

The text with the recording says
his cante harks back to Chozas, el Nitri, Pastora… Where
did he learn those things?
Seguiriyas and soleá were from his father’s side,
a gypsy from Jerez, and his mother’s cantes were from
Pastora, Tomás Pavón, la Perla de Cádiz
whom he admired very much. The blacksmith’s songs were
from his father, and the festive ‘canastero’ cantes
were from his mother. The two great branches of traditional
flamenco come together in Camarón.

How did Camarón absorb the
cantes?…it seems he had a knack…
He had an ear for music and an intelligence that few possess…Mozart
comes to mind…these are people who can go to a concert and
then are able to write the whole thing down when they get
home, a perfect ear for all the notes, that’s how Camarón
was. La Perla de Cádiz used to say, “he learned
all my songs and does them better than me”. Furthermore,
Camarón was a great student of flamenco, if he heard
there was an old lady in some town, he’d seek her out
and sing for her to get her to sing, and he’d remember
that material.

How did you manage to determine
the date of the recordings? What’s the story on those
tapes?
When the people from the venta said they had a tape recorded
by Juan Vargas, that was already astonishing news. As soon
as I saw the tape was a four-hour reel-to-reel on four tracks,
two hours in one direction, and two in the other, I knew that
was a good machine, Juan Vargas must have gotten it from the
Americans at the base in Rota.

«La Perla de Cádiz
used to say, 'he learned all my songs and does them better
than me' ”.

In those days there weren’t
any 4-track recorders.
No, of course, I’m sure he got it from Rota, someone
at the base got it for him.

Is there no possibility the tapes
were from a later date than 1968?
No, one part is from before Camarón went to Málaga
with Miguel de los Reyes, and the other, before he went to
Madrid and started to record with Philips. When this was made,
he hadn’t yet recorded anywhere. The first four cantes
are recorded outdoors with a microphone.

That must have entailed a lot of
restoration and digitalizing…
All we did was clean it up, in the most literal sense of the
word, with absolute honesty, none of the levels were adjusted,
it’s Camarón’s natural voice as Ricardo
Pachón and I remember it at that age, I have the same
age as Camarón and was hearing him sing from at the
age of 7, 8, 9, 15, 20… We’re from the same town and
have the same sage, and that’s how Camarón sang
at that age, just like on the record.

And all those cantes of Camarón
on the record were on the same tape even though they were
from such different eras…what else was on the tapes?
Juan Vargas recorded everything…there’s Rancapino,
Caracol, Juan Vargas himself singing, recordings from Radio
Jerez…and the tape was stashed away in a drawer all this
time.

Enrique Montiel. Photo: Rafa Manjavacas.

What can we hear on the record?
The first cante is a bulería of Chozas, a singer from
Jerez who had a way of singing bulerías that Camarón
really liked, and he does it to his own palmas, without music.
For the other three cantes he’s accompanying himself
on the guitar. Camarón was a great guitar fan, and
he collected guitars, he has over twenty guitars, all very
valuable.

What’s the “seguiriya
de los grillos”?
That’s a seguiriya of el Nitri, but since you can hear
the crickets (grillos), we decided to call it that.

«With Paco de Lucía's
father, Camarón recorded everything he was told, whatever
they put in front of him».

It’s always been said that
Camarón was limited and only sang certain palos.
This proves the contrary, but when he got to Madrid he fell
into the hands of Antonio Sánchez Pecino, Paco de Lucía’s
father, who had a very strong personality, and Camarón
recorded everything he was told, whatever they put in front
of him. On these recordings no one was telling him what to
do and he just sings what he wants and likes.

Are they all popular cantes, nothing
original of Camarón?
Everything no, there’s a fandango with two lines where
he mentions the death of his father. When his brother Manuel
heard the recording he nearly fainted. Camarón used
to sleep with his father and was there when he died, he was
just a child. There are also some cuplés por bulerías,
very nice things of Montoya which his mother liked a lot.

What about those tangos of “Rintintín”?
Oh, that was something Camarón really like a lot and
sang often.

They say it was Ramón el
Portuqués who taught that to him.
Could be.

But Camarón didn’t
meet Ramón until much later on.
I said it “could” be, but that’s ridiculous,
those tangos were recorded by Pastora before Ramón
el Portugués. Camarón learned a lot from la
Niña de los Peines, and now with the complete set of
her work that’s been published we see it was she who
invented everything. Camarón learned the “Rintintín”
not from Ramón, but from la Perla and Pastora Pavón.

It’s possible Camarón heard Ramón el
Portugués sing those tangos when he came to San Fernando,
or to the bullring, you can be sure Camarón was there.
Now, that Ramón sat down and showed Camarón
the tangos of “Rintintín”, who could believe
such a story?

How much more Camarón is
there? How much more to be published?
Like I say, Universal is in the process of remastering everything
he recorded, which I think is a very good thing, now with
the modern procedures there are, it’ll make a big difference,
Camarón was very poorly recorded. So this means we’ll
have Camarón’s entire output remastered. Then
there’s the concert in Brazil, the only concert Camarón
every did live with Paco de Lucía, and it was recorded,
that’s going to be of great interest. Then there are
recordings of festivals that were broadcast by Canal Sur Radio
with good sound quality, but the repertoire is repeated and
it loses interest. Paco Ortega also has a lot, Ricardo Pachón
too, but he’s already published many things. There are
also some photographs of very good quality.

«As soon as I saw the tapes
I knew we had a record, the definitive record, the missing
link».

In other words, we can expect a
couple of things to keep coming out every year…
Well yes, but not anything like this, nothing as important
as this. As soon as I saw the tapes I knew we had a record,
the definitive record, the missing link, the first thing he
ever recorded, and think we’ve been able to prove it.

Who has the rights to the new recording?
Camarón’s heirs. Universal has the exclusive
rights to the Camarón edition and a contract with the
family to that effect.

What do you know about the film
that’s being made?
All I know is what Chispa (Camarón’s widow) told
me, that they had vetoed the script – the heirs had
the right to turn down the script. So it’s been rewritten,
and although they’re not entirely happy, an agreement
was reached, it’s going to be very difficult.

I suppose there’s a great
deal of expectation…
It’s going to be a musical more than anything else,
to present a less problematic take on Camarón. We’re
interested in what Camarón sang, I don’t think
they’re going to focus on anything negative.

[Universal Music- 2004]